On this special Ropes & Gray podcast, co-hiring partner for the firm and co-managing partner of the firm’s Boston office, Jeff Katz, sits down with three members of the 2025 Summer Associate Program: Ben Haward (Harvard University), Esteban Ortiz (Boston University), and Michelle Yang (Northeastern University). Together, they provide an inside look at the summer associate experience at Ropes & Gray, sharing candid reflections on mentorship, professional growth, and the collaborative culture that defines the firm. The conversation also turns the tables, with the summer associates posing thoughtful questions to Jeff about the skills that have shaped his career, the evolving landscape of legal practice, and the enduring values that have remained constant at Ropes & Gray over his 25-year tenure. Jeff offers practical advice for future summer associates, stressing the importance of engagement, curiosity, and building relationships.
Transcript:
Jeff Katz: Hello, and welcome to this Ropes & Gray podcast. My name is Jeff Katz. I am the co-hiring partner for the firm, the co-managing partner of the firm’s Boston office and a member of our private capital transactions practice. On this special edition—and you’ll soon hear why this is so special—we have with us three summer associates from our 2025 Boston Summer Associate Program. First, we have Esteban Ortiz, who is a student at Boston University, and he spent the summer with our esteemed litigation group. We have Ben Haward, who is at Harvard University, and he’s focusing on health care in our corporate practice. And Michelle Yang from Northeastern University, who is focusing on private equity and asset management, again in our corporate practice. Michelle, please tell our audience about something that surprised you about your experience this past summer.
Michelle Yang: I think the people here have surprised me the most this summer. I think for many law students, we hear about how collegial a law firm is and how their people and culture are what sets them apart from the rest. From my very first week here at Ropes, I’ve gotten to see that kindness, selflessness, and willingness to invest and mentor young associates firsthand this summer. My partner mentor and my senior associate on the floor stopped by my office towards the end of my first day to welcome me to the firm and introduce themselves. We ended up chatting for hours that night. On my second day here, one of the partners that I interviewed with last summer stopped by to check in on me and just make sure that I would know that she would be a resource for me this summer, even though I wasn’t sitting on her floor. A memory that will always stick with me is that an associate on my floor heard that I’d be going to a Red Sox game that evening when it was expected to rain, and he immediately went to his office and grabbed a brand-new Ropes & Gray sweatshirt and brought it to me so that I would stay warm and dry during that game that night. These are just a few of the many experiences that I’ve had this summer where a partner, an associate, a paralegal member, staff member, or even one of my own fellow summer associates have made me feel so incredibly lucky to be part of the Ropes & Gray family.
Jeff Katz: That sounds like full service across the board and a sweatshirt—I love it. Thank you. Esteban, tell me what you’ve learned during the 10 weeks about client service.
Esteban Ortiz: The number one thing that I learned is about being sensitive to clients’ time constraints. I can’t count the number of times I’d be on a call with a client, and they said, “I’m so busy today.” And especially with that backdrop, that makes you wonder, “How can I be as efficient with them and as efficient with my communications and be sensitive to how their time is short?” The biggest thing that I’ve learned is also how to curate how we present our legal advice. I think that’s our deliverable here. We’re not delivering slide decks. We’re not delivering anything like that. There’s no frills. We have to be as pointed and pinpoint precise with our advice as we can. So, I learned how to develop emails to be very concise—that was a useful skill. I would draft an email, send it to the senior associate, the senior associate would send it back with notes, and then we’d send it to the partner. It was this iterative process of trying to get this email as precise as possible, again, because the client’s time is short, and we have to get them the advice that they need in a very packaged, very carefully curated way.
Jeff Katz:. That’s great. Thank you for that example. And Ben, if you would just talk about a project or a matter that you’ve worked on this summer that really stood out to you and just share with our audience the aspects that you enjoyed most.
Ben Haward: I’ve been very lucky, as have many other summers who were in the health care group, that we’ve had a lot of work to do this summer on a lot of different, interesting projects with clients working on really cutting-edge goals and matters. The one that really stands out for me was at the intersection of litigation and health care. I didn’t come into the summer thinking that I had an interest in litigation, but it was really amazing during this project to see how attorneys from across Ropes offices, from across practice groups came together and shared their expertise, and really enjoyed having a back and forth with different associates, different partners and continuing to build a strategy, building my own research skills, and also being challenged to think quite creatively about a very difficult matter that implicated health care regulation, that implicated constitutional law. And so, something I didn’t think I would experience this summer became something that was deeply, deeply fascinating and also deeply satisfying, being the person that lawyers come to, being treated as a peer even though we’re only here for 10 weeks. It’s difficult, for some matters, to go to summer associates—I think it’s part of just the time limitation we have. I really felt like I became part of that team and saw this matter progress, and hopefully it’s something where we’re going to achieve the client’s goals in the very near future.
Jeff Katz: Ben, it sounds like because you were diving in deep and you were reading—I don’t want to put words in your mouth—material from industry groups, doing the research, you were the point person because you were the one who learned the most over time. You were doing the deepest dive, so you became a critical resource on this matter even though you only spent 10 weeks at Ropes & Gray. Is that fair?
Ben Haward: Exactly—which was not something I think I expected. Going back to Michelle’s question, it was highly surprising to me. I didn’t think I could become so deeply involved with something in such a short period of time. It was looking into the wrinkles of this legal argument and diving deep, going through all the potential cases that had implications for the client, and really trying to come up with creative ways that we could achieve their goals.
Jeff Katz: Before we turn the tables and I let the three of you ask questions of me, just want to check back in with you, Esteban and Michelle, to see if there’s anything you want to add so far.
Esteban Ortiz: Yes, I would just echo what Ben was saying about getting the chance to really run with the ball. I think that was definitely what I was looking for, the chance to do real substantive work and to do real research for clients. But at the same time, I will add that we do still have the mentorship, so even though I was working on a reply brief, for example, I still was being mentored by someone who had two clerkships under their belt, was a former professor. So, it felt like you had the chance to run with the ball, but you also had the chance to also be mentored.
Jeff Katz: Alright, allowing you to turn the tables. Why don’t we start with you, Esteban?
Esteban Ortiz: My first question was about being an effective lawyer. It requires many skill sets but it also requires a mix of personal qualities such as empathy, patience, determination, endurance. Can you talk about the skills or qualities that have served you best in your own career and any skills or questions that carried the day for you?
Jeff Katz: I’ve been at Ropes & Gray almost 25 years. The core of it is relationships—relationships with your colleagues, relationships with clients, and relationships with prospective clients. A lot of that stuff you mentioned, you have to have that. You have to be organized. And you mentioned endurance—which I loved, and I don’t hear a lot—it’s not a sprint, it’s a marathon. This is a tough job, but if you embrace it and you are open and think about the importance of all those relationships—what does that mean? That means saying “yes.” It means helping your colleagues. It means having their back. It means being laser-focused with client service. It means being responsive. These are things that sound so obvious, but when you’re handling multiple matters and some have deadlines that sound impossible, it’s not easy, but it is rewarding, because client service is rewarding. Here at Ropes & Gray, what we’re thinking about the whole time is excellence in legal advice, excellence in client service, and—I know you’ve heard this word over the summer—stewardship. Our job is to make this firm better so when we leave, the next generation of lawyers, all of you, have a better firm—that is what we carry with us as partners on a day-to-day basis.
Michelle Yang: Jeff, throughout the summer, I am still so impressed by the degree of involvement and the mentorship that you’ve had with so many of the attorneys that are here at Ropes as well as with those who have left the firm. Do you mind sharing how you manage to find time for all that you do? And are there things that you wish you could do more of?
Jeff Katz: Michelle, there are so many things I wish I could do more of. When you’re a lawyer and you’re an associate, realizing you also have to be relentless about prioritization, and at the end of the day, you are not going to have everything done and every box checked. You need to keep track of what can roll over to the next day and making sure you’re communicating with everybody—communicating with your colleagues and communicating with your clients about timing—and if you need help, making sure you get help.
Ben Haward: Jeff, for many of us in the summer class, this is our first experience in a law firm, and it’s really a snapshot of a law firm. It’s Ropes & Gray in the summer of 2025 that prioritizes excellence in its work and collegiality among its attorneys and staff. You’ve been at the firm now for 25 years—how you’ve seen the firm change, the work that lawyers do at Ropes & Gray change, but then also, what’s stayed the same over those 25 years?
Jeff Katz: Ben, I will spare you what it was like when I first got here, because I find that a little less relevant, but what I do think is extraordinarily relevant is the change today in 2025. AI is going to change the way we deliver legal services to clients, but also, the tools we have to deliver those legal services. And the reason why I jump to AI, Ben, is because one thing that has been a marked change is the speed with which clients expect us to deliver legal services and the speed of delivering those legal services. We’re in a client service business, so we need to adapt and make sure that we meet those needs. So, using AI, using technology, whatever we have at our disposal, and teamwork. You asked what’s stayed the same. What has stayed the same is when I call one of my colleagues, they pick up the phone or they return the call quickly. Ropes & Gray is a place where all the lawyers and the support team, they have each other’s backs. To use a sport metaphor, we’ve all heard about these locker rooms where you’ve got the superstars, the prima donnas, maybe it’s the best player on the team that doesn’t ride on the team bus, instead takes his or her separate transportation. That’s not the locker room at Ropes & Gray. The locker room at Ropes & Gray is one where everybody has each other’s back and wants to help make each of their colleagues the best lawyer they could be. That’s what has not changed, and as stewards of the firm, that’s something that the partners here guard zealously.
Michelle Yang: To go off that, I’ve seen partners ride on the buses with the summers to events, so we are definitely all on the same bus. Jeff, can I ask you what your advice is for prospective summer associates?
Jeff Katz: The advice I have for future summer associates is from day one, engage, introduce yourself to people, and just look for opportunities. Say “yes.” Be curious and be assertive. The assertiveness is important—going back to the word I mentioned before, “speed,” because things happen so quickly, the summer associates that are more open, who get out of their office, talk to lawyers, they’re going to see more. Certainly, the summer associates that make a concerted effort to be engaged with as many people as possible, they see more of the firm, and there’s a lot to see.
Michelle Yang: I consider myself an introvert, so coming into the Ropes & Gray Boston class of a very large number of summer associates, it was intimidating. It felt like I would be one of many, but I have not felt that way at all this summer.
Jeff Katz: Any parting words from either of you, Ben or Esteban?
Esteban Ortiz: I totally agree with Michelle. Whatever your personality type, people will knock on your door, people will come and say “hi.” So, I think as much as it’s definitely about pursuing opportunities, opportunities have a way of finding you here, too. I had such an amazing summer. I think that this is such a great place to be.
Ben Haward: I think Michelle’s hit the nail on the head. Another thing I wanted to mention is just how much I’ve learned from the other summer associates. I think having that bigger class size here in Boston, there’s just so many interesting people with different backgrounds and different interests who have made me realize different things about my career, and I’ve just learned so much from them alongside the lawyers in the office here. So, it’s really been a fantastic summer, and I couldn’t recommend Ropes & Gray highly enough for your summer.
Jeff Katz: Thank you for that. And to the three of you, I would say don’t think for a second that the lawyers here have not learned from all of you. That’s one of the great things about having summer associates come in—we learn from all of them every summer. So, thank you for that. Esteban, Ben, and Michelle, I want to thank you for joining me today and sharing your experiences from our Summer Program, and, of course, wishing you all the best in your continued studies in the year ahead. We look forward to seeing you again. I’d also like to thank our listeners. I hope you all found this to be helpful and an insightful dive into our Summer Program. And if you’re a law student or a recent graduate who would like to learn more, please visit us at www.ropesgrayrecruiting.com. You can subscribe to this and other Ropes & Gray podcasts wherever you typically listen to podcasts, including on Apple and Spotify. Again, thank you Ben, Esteban, and Michelle. Thanks again for listening.
